Poverty
What is the big deal about poverty? I was just thinking that to me I feel very indifferent almost to the poor. "Get a job" ..."Do some work" are the type of thoughts that come into my head. I have people who come to my house constantly asking for money, and its hard to know what to do. I always tell myself I'll do something one day to help with that...Someday soon. Problem is we are all so busy with life...We choose not to think about it really. We are unaffected. But the whole issue of poverty in my city,nation, and the world is a big deal. Its a big deal to Jesus, maybe because there are millions of them all over the world. I feel very strongly that all people should make it a concern of there's to better this world and to help a brother who's in need, and let me tell ya...There's a lot in need.
For 5 years now I have been involved in a ministry that takes students to the government housing facilities in downtown Lynchburg. It hasn't taken long to become frustrated with this ministry. On the surface, doing a lot of good things and beyond the surface as well. Many children will remember our kindness and love for years to come. However, their situation and their families hasn't changed at all. These kids don't have fathers...So their mom works all day...Because their mom works all day...She doesn't discipline her kids...Nor does she show them love...So the kids....Do anything for love and acceptance...And lack discipline in school...Years down the road...The lack of discipline leads to fights, alcohol, and drugs...Which lead to getting kicked out of school...Which leads to no career....Which leads to .....It goes on.
How can we really help these families? I feel somewhat helpless as what exactly to do. Yeah, you can do clothes drives, can food drives, etc. What does that really do? Its giving a man a fish, not teaching him to fish. Yeah, we can do nice things in the name of Christ, however, is that it? I don't want the poor to be people who are taken care of...Always, but to become people who will start taking care of others one day...Not just receivers.
My idea is that you all have an idea about this...How can we spark change in our communities? How can we invest in the future? Is it kids? Is it families? Maybe its that we all need to adopt a family? Maybe life on life is the only way? Maybe its communities of people who need to, bands of people who would care enough about one family to invest in them and give as they had need? Is it teaching money management classes? How can we get colleges involved? Is a faith-based initiative something that could serve this purpose to look into? How can we stop this cycle of poverty in our cities? How do we get people to care? How do we get churches to care? Does anyone have any........Ideas?
For 5 years now I have been involved in a ministry that takes students to the government housing facilities in downtown Lynchburg. It hasn't taken long to become frustrated with this ministry. On the surface, doing a lot of good things and beyond the surface as well. Many children will remember our kindness and love for years to come. However, their situation and their families hasn't changed at all. These kids don't have fathers...So their mom works all day...Because their mom works all day...She doesn't discipline her kids...Nor does she show them love...So the kids....Do anything for love and acceptance...And lack discipline in school...Years down the road...The lack of discipline leads to fights, alcohol, and drugs...Which lead to getting kicked out of school...Which leads to no career....Which leads to .....It goes on.
How can we really help these families? I feel somewhat helpless as what exactly to do. Yeah, you can do clothes drives, can food drives, etc. What does that really do? Its giving a man a fish, not teaching him to fish. Yeah, we can do nice things in the name of Christ, however, is that it? I don't want the poor to be people who are taken care of...Always, but to become people who will start taking care of others one day...Not just receivers.
My idea is that you all have an idea about this...How can we spark change in our communities? How can we invest in the future? Is it kids? Is it families? Maybe its that we all need to adopt a family? Maybe life on life is the only way? Maybe its communities of people who need to, bands of people who would care enough about one family to invest in them and give as they had need? Is it teaching money management classes? How can we get colleges involved? Is a faith-based initiative something that could serve this purpose to look into? How can we stop this cycle of poverty in our cities? How do we get people to care? How do we get churches to care? Does anyone have any........Ideas?
posted by K at 6:14 PM
9 Comments:
i was just talking to my roommate about how the christian church often seems lacking in this area that you are writing about. we talked more about social justice as a whole, but i think poverty is a crucial element of it. my roommate works in a church and was talking to the pastor and his wife about this. the pastor's wife said that she gets frustrated that church usually turns a blind eye toward such things, while the "secular world" seems to do a much better job of addressing social justice issues.
my roommate brought up the idea of all of humanity being image-bearers of God and asked whether or not she believed that God is being manifested in the lives of the "secular" folks who are getting messy in the world for the sake of justice as much as God is manifested in those of us who are doing good chruch things.
i thought it to be quite an interesting question. i lean towards the "yes" answer to his question. but then again, i find myself increasingly losing the ability to see clearly the line between "secular" and "sacred". maybe i'm a heretic.
peace,
bjn
Bryan,
One thing I want to see in my lifetime is a huge return for social justice by all people (especially Christians)in America. Its not that people have a blind eye, its that they don't want to see it. They don't have time to see it. They avoid it. Both eyes are inward. what about my question...do you have any ideas? what do you do in seattle to promote/do social justice?
I think thats a very interesting question about when "unsaved" people do good things. Is God manifested? For example, our neighbor mowed our lawn this summer. We often mow her lawn, but she returned the favor. I consider that act an act of love. Now i asked the guys in the house if thats was pure love...dare i say God manifesting himself. Their answer was no...it couldn't be they said...because it must have been selfish because she's not a Christian.
However, I believe it is possible for God to manifest himself through anything. I believe He is that powerful and that good from what I know of Him.
maybe its like the last chapter in the Last Battle, c.s. Lewis, wrote about the soldier who served the false god....when aslan approached he accepted the soldier and counted all the service done to the false god service done to the Aslan or the true God.
what do you mean by the "sacred" / "secular"...give me more examples.
I believe too that we shouldn't try so hard to make so many distinctions and to separate ourselves so much. Now there is much lost ground I believe. We need to blur the two again, and be among different types of people (different backgrounds and all.
Leigh-Ann,
You wrote: In response to your question I think it must be "life on life." It must be relational, personal, focused on individuals in order for someone to be changed.
Somehow I knew you would advocate this position...shepherdess. However, I agree with you.
What you said helped me to think more clearly about the poor's situation. I believe there really is a hierarchy of needs in every man/woman.For example, If I have no sleep/no food/no water...i'm not gonna want to do anything till I have them. I believe in a similiar way, poverty is an obstacle that is preventing people from Jesus. So much time,energy, is spent in the search of money to meet those basic needs that there is never anytime for anything else.
You were right on when you said:
Love is the only thing that produces true change in individuals. True love does not enable someone to be co-dependent. True love enables someone to become independent.
You hit the nail on the head. Dependency and the recipient only/entitlement mentality of the poor is a core issue. Especially the families I know. Everyone owes them,regardless of race or age.
However, we as a people have done very little to change that situation. We keep them dependent on us. So now they have that mentality...and our food drives, clothes drivers, just further it. We need to love them in much more demanding ways i believe. We need to build trust by proving our love over time...to build a voice to speak into this type of lifestyle and the heart that drive this type of behavior...this plague of selfishness.
I have thought about this recently as well because of all the natural disasters which tend to highlight poverty for some reason. I think we have a tendency to think on a macro level with poverty (like how can we end poverty, or how can we get these people to become not just "recievers"). But i think Jesus calls us to the micro level most of the time. Like leigh ann said its a person to person thing, not an abstract idea of poverty on the whole.
I think as Christians most of our responses to the world start at the micro and move to the macro. Like the spread of Christianity. They wernt focused on getting to the whole worldn by tomorow just the people are them today. I think our response should be similar to poverty. It is how are we responding to those around us in need.
Also, I think we need to beware of Jesus complex's. We have to remember that we are not the savior and that these people are really in the same boat as us. We arent two different types of people. Just because we were born into money doesnt mean we have any authority or special powers.
Let us all sing U2's song 'One' now...
My answer to this question is that I really don't have one. I guess that's typical.
I do think though, that a lot of it is that is just christians being selfish. We spend waaaaaaaay to much money on ourselves, and not enough on another people. Why don't we give more of our money away? Frankly, I think the rate at which we give money away is pathetic. Absolutly pathetic.
There are tons, and tons, of great organizations which effectivelly fight poverty (worldvision, compassion, heifer internation, doctors without borders, etc). Why don't we support them better?
One of the things that Jesus said which resonates with me the most is that if you see a person in need of a shirt, and you have one then give it to them. One thing that technology has done for us is allow us to see everyone. The world is now our neighbor, when will we start being the good samaritin?
This is especially true for american christians, we're the richest people in the world. Poor americans are rich to the rest of the world. Really, when you compare us to the average person in the world, we are Bill Gates. Ever wonder what he does with all his money? That's what the rest of the world asks about us. You know they answer to what we do about with all our money? Spend it on ourselves.
I think this isn't the only thing we should do, but it is the easiest.
While, I'm ranting, I also wanted to say that I hate "the poor will always be with you" rhetoric. To say that we understand and know what this statement means seems to me to be quite conceited. Poverty really is a complex problem which I don't think humanity has grasped yet.
I really agree with Drew when he said we need to be careful of the Jesus complex. I would like to add, though, that we be careful also of looking at the bible as a textbook to solving poverty.
wow. this is a great discussion. thanks to all! i just want to highlight a few of my favorite parts:
leigh ann: "So what CAN we do? We can embrace the "poor" around us. (The "poor" does not always look like those who are financially poor either. Anyone who is destitute emotionally, mentally or physically is poor.)"
right on! i work on the adolescent unit of a locked psych hospital and your words couldn't be more true in that context!
josh: "Its not that people have a blind eye, its that they don't want to see it. They don't have time to see it. They avoid it. Both eyes are inward. what about my question...do you have any ideas? what do you do in seattle to promote/do social justice?"
I agree fully. Blind by choice is what i was referring to as well. thanks for putting it the way you did. As for what i'm doing in seattle, the answer is a sad--not enough. i do work with some the poorest in the terms that leigh ann mentioned above. also, in coffee-land, i try to support fair trade companies (www.maketradefair.com). i have been recently made aware of the tragic situation in Uganda and have been in discussions with my fellow classmates on how to get involved (www.abbyinafrica.blogspot.com & www.invisiblechildren.com).
ill legit: "I think we have a tendency to think on a macro level with poverty (like how can we end poverty, or how can we get these people to become not just "recievers"). But i think Jesus calls us to the micro level most of the time."
well said. i think it's safer for us to talk in the abstraction of the macro level. if it seems huge we can sound noble in our brainstorming without getting our hands dirty with the poor who are indeed among us.
Gregg: "Or the debate as to whether it is service that pleases God. It must at times please him, because some people seem to be built for it, compelled with the compassionate heart and I would apply that to the some doctor's nurses, red cross workers, etc."
Ghandi comes to mind for me when i read your words here. I have a hard time imagining that God wasn't pleased with Ghandi. You also spoke of the paradox of all of this. The further i go in this christianity thing, the more i feel surrounded by paradox and mystery.
mj: "Poverty really is a complex problem which I don't think humanity has grasped yet."
enough said.
again, i have really appreciated this! sorry for such a long post.
bryan
off topic...how did you get the word verification on your comment page?
Drew, the word verification is available through a blogger setting. You can find it under Settings->Comments-> Show word verification for comments?
Gregg, I hope that you didn't take my poor always being with us comments as an attack.
I do think that verse is a great example of the problems that I see with Christian's perspectives on poverty. I think if we look and see the context, it's pretty plain that Jesus wasn't trying to give us an eternal truth about poverty. Instead, he was trying to teach his disciples about priorities. Check out this version of that story for what I mean (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/354).
Wow.
Good discussions on his blog, but it often read like the "blind leading the
blind." Just a conglomeration of feelings, random thoughts, and
overstatements. I encourage discusison, but hope for more informed input.
For example, more than one of the writers accused Christian churches
of not doing much in the area of social justice. Goodness, faith-based
orgainzations and local churches (i.e., the Church) do more than anyone
else! It is because of that statistical fact that the current admin enacted
the Faith-based Initiative.
Many used Scripture vaguely or without thought to support what they
felt is a Christian's mandate to restore social justice. One, at least,
alluded to something true by saying poor is more than financial. When did
Jesus provide money for the "poor"? How did he bring social justice? Isn't
that what he rebuked his disciples for when they wanted deliverance from
Roman oppression? When did the early church open up a food bank for the poor
in Jerusalem? Where did Paul write in his instructions to the churches to
take care of the poor? On the contrary Paul rebuked the spirit of welfare
and entitlement in 1 Thess 5. Instead the early church took care of its own
first and foremost (Acts 6, 1 Cor 16, 2 Cor 8, 1 Tim 5). Even James takes of
taking care of your "brother" (Christian) As to the reference to loving
your neighbor, that was in the context of the Law which was divided in two
parts (love God and love others) so the half of the 10 Commandements show
how we are to love others (fidelity, honesty, respect of property, etc...)
and no mention of social justice. Now, that's not to say there isn't a
place for it, but as a mandate or command? I don't see that clearly in God's
Word.
Actually their discussions and the entire "rebellion" of this
generation happened before in the 60s, in the 70s, in the 80s, and in the
90s Jesus movement, charismatic upheaval, house church movement, etc...). I
could go back further into history and find the same comments (social gospel
fo the 1920s, liberation theology of the 1800s, Reconstructionists in
Calvin's day, etc...) Different people, similar complaints, same assertions
of bringing revival. And so here we are today. What did Solomon say about
newness?
Sorry about rambling; I just had to write something! :-)
-anonymous
(can reveal if they want, lots of good stuff to say)
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